squaresinger

joined 3 months ago
[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 minutes ago

Yeah, my issue with Fairphone's branding/marketing/reputation here is that I know a lot of people who buy a fairphone because they want to save the planet, and that's really not what this phone is doing.

Almost* every alternative hardware company asks much more for a (hardware wise comparable) product for a whole slew of reasons; “Fairness” rarely plays into it.

In other words, even if the Fairphone wouldn’t claim to be fair, it would cost just as much.

This is exactly it. Running a tiny company with nothing in-house making a custom phone with custom hardware is expensive.

To be fair (haha, pun intended) their phones are also about modularity.

That's where the whole concept falls apart for me. I own my phones for a long time, and battery longevity has gotten much better in the last 1-2 decades. If you own a phone for 5-7 years, you will likely need to replace the battery one, or at most two times. Even if in the worst case this is going to cost you at max maybe €135 per swap (that's what Apple charges for a battery swap on their most expensive phone). On a cheaper phone using 3rd party repair shops we are talking about less than half of that.

I've never destroyed a screen before, but some people do, and also then you'll likely pay maybe €150-200 for a phone in the same range as the FP5. Now consider that Fairphone spare parts really aren't cheap. They want €40 (plus shipping) for the battery and €100 (plus shipping) for the display for an FP5, so you aren't saving that much on DIY repairs with the Fairphone.

Now consider that buying a mainstream phone comparable to a Fairphone is usually ~€300 cheaper, and the calculation completely breaks down. And it becomes even worse if you never destroy the screen.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 16 minutes ago

So where does the money go? In 2024 they had an EBITDA of just €1 745 840, or €16.94 per phone. That’s not a lot at all, so it’s not like they are pocketing huge sums of money.

Yes, they are profitable, though barely so. Then again, their profits per device is much much more than what they pay for fairness.

 

This is a short analysis of the official Fairphone 2024 impact report.

Fairphone is kinda cagey about how much money they exactly spend on fair/eco initiatives, giving only very little information on what exactly it spends in these departments.

For a good reason, it is not a lot.

Specifically, these numbers are given in the report for 2024:

  • The workers assembling the phones get $1.20 of "living wage bonus" for each phone assembled. This bonus is spread over all workers in the factory, no matter if they worked on fairphones or not, coming out to a yearly bonus of $60.67 per worker.
  • $3000 was spent on gold fairwashing credits for some artisanal gold mine in Tanzania
  • $13000 was spent on fairwashing credits for 2.5 tonnes of cobalt (that's 20% of the raw world market price of cobalt).

That's everything. They do talk about a few other fair/eco initiatives in there, but if you read about what they are doing there, it's usually very little and mostly marketing speech. We can safely assume that if any other initiatives would cost more than the ones mentioned above, they would have put these values into the impact report.

They sold 103 053 phones in 2024, so the credits mentioned above come out to just $0.155 per phone.

So to account for the rest of their initiatives and credits, let's be ultra generous and assume they paid 10x of that for all of these initiatives and credits, bringing this value up to $1.55 per phone plus $1.20 in living wage bonus, which gives us a total of $2.75 per phone.


To double check how realistic these numbers are, lets look at their use of fair materials using the Fairphone 5 as our example.

On page 42 they claim "Fair materials: 76%", but with the disclaimer "Average across 14 focus materials" next to it.

These 76% do not consider materials that are not "focus materials" (and aren't acquired fairly at all) and it also doesn't take into consideration the different distributions of the materials in the phone. Some materials (e.g. iridium) are only found in trace amounts in the phone, while other materials (e.g. aluminium or plastics) make up a large part of the weight of the phone.

On page 67 they go into more detail. Here they claim that only 44% of the materials by weight are "fair". To make this even worse, 37% of these 44% are recycled. Specifically, the materials they use in recycled form are metals, plastics and rare earth elements. These are materials that are cheaper to recycle than to mine, which means these 37% of "fair" materials cost nothing to Fairphone and might even save them money. You will likely find similar shares of recycled materials in any other phone too.

Of the 7% "fair" materials that are left, only 1% is actually mined fairly, the remaining 6% are fairwashed using credits. As we have seen above, these credits are really cheap (adding maybe 20% to the price of the material).

On top of that comes the fact that the raw materials make up only a tiny fraction of the manufacturing cost of a smartphone. The expensive part is turning a pile of minerals, metals and plastic into chips, PCBs, screens, batteries and assembling all of that. So even if they paid fairwashing credits for all materials in the phone it would likely not cost more than a few dollars.


TLDR: Less than $5 per phone are spent on fair/eco.


So where does the money go? In 2024 they had an EBITDA of just €1 745 840, or €16.94 per phone. That's not a lot at all, so it's not like they are pocketing huge sums of money.

Their main problem is that they are a tiny company with low sales figures that has to outsource almost everything they do. On their website they claim to have "70+ employees". That's barely enough for supply chain management, sales and marketing. They don't have an in-house production and likely not even in-house development. They don't have any economies of scale on their side and they certainly don't produce screens, batteries, chips or PCBs in house, like other major manufacturers like e.g. Samsung can do. Their development cost is spread over far fewer sold units.

All of this costs a lot of money.

So when you pay an extra €200-300 to buy a Fairphone instead of a comparable mainstream phone, you are mostly paying for a boutique manufacturing process that can't benefit from economies of scale.

Which is ok, that's nothing bad to do. Just be aware where that extra money is going.

Buying a Fairphone is hardly fairer than buying a regular phone and it is certainly not more eco friendly than buying an used phone.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 hour ago

Read through the whole report, sum up all the money they mention. It comes out to $16 000. Double that for the stuff where they don't mention money (because they surely would mention anything that costs more than the things they do mention). Double it again, for a safety margin. Double it again, because we are really generous. Now we are at €128 000. Divide that by the number of devices sold in 2024 and you get $1.24. Now add the $1.20 (Page 29) they pay as a living wage bonus and you arrive at $2.44 per device.

And now let's be super generous and double that guess again, and you end up with the <€5 per device that I quoted above.

The picture becomes clearer when you look at what they say about their fair material usage.

Take for example the FP5 (page 42 & 67). Their top claim here is "Fair materials: 76%", which they then put a disclaimer next to it, that they only mean that 76% of 14 specific focus materials is actually fair. On the detail page (page 67) they specify that actually only 44% of the total weight of the phone is fairly mined, because they just excluded a ton of material from the list of "focus materials" to push up the number.

The largest part of these materials are actually recycled materials (37% of the 44% "fair" materials). The materials they are recycling are plastics, metals and rare earth elements. That's all materials that are cheaper to recycle than to mine. You'll likely find almost identical amounts of recycled materials in any other phone, because it makes economical sense. It's just cheaper. Since these materials cost nothing extra to Fairphone, we can exclude them from the list, which leaves 1% of actually fair mined material (specifically gold), and 6% of materials that they bought fairwashing credits for.

Also, the raw materials of phones are dirt cheap compared to the end price. The costly part is not mining the materials, but manufacturing all the components.

With only 1% of the materials being fairly mined and only 6% being compensated with credits, you can start to see why in total they spend next to nothing on fair mining/fair credits.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 hour ago

They only did that once for the FP5. It was a terrible choice, leading to high battery usage and compatibility issues. They only did that because when it came out, 5 years of software support wasn't something crazy any more. Samsung already provided the same on their mainstream flagship phones. So to top that they chose that embedded chip with 10 years of support from Qualcomm. But 10 years is practically speaking really hard overkill, especially considering the very impractical downsides of that chip.

By now, most major phone brands have support times rivalling what Fairphone is bringing to the table, and for that to work, Qualcomm has to support their mainstream phone chips for longer.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 3 hours ago

and a UBI replacing all welfare programs

I'm actually against that. Not against an UBI per se, but against it replacing all welfare programs.

The main issue here is that needs vary a lot, and depending on your specific needs, an UBI might not begin to cover them.

One of my kids has Cystic Fibrosis, which leads to frequent hospital stays. One of the main medications (Kaftrio, that stuff is a miracle drug, it's crazy how well it works) costs ~€350k per year.

UBI would be a drop in the ocean in this regard.

The same goes for a lot of other conditions. For example, a nursing home costs way more than any UBI would cover, but also if you have a disability that would require frequent assistance and/or a modified home or some special kind of transport, UBI would be just not enough.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 5 hours ago* (last edited 5 hours ago)

Unless you use an RT kernel, Linux is not a realtime OS and certainly not a true one.

Because, you know, terms have a meaning.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 12 hours ago

Don't worry, it fails in Europe too. I ended up giving away my FP4, because it fails to do even basic stuff like make a call after 3G was switched off in my country.

Worst phone I ever had, with quite a margin. And the only one I ever kept for under 2 years and the only one I replaced while it was still physically ok.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 12 hours ago (2 children)

Have a look at their impact report. They themselves claim that they don't spend more than €5 per phone on fair trade or environmental stuff.

You are only paying more for that phone because they are a tiny boutique manufacturer who has to outsource everything. The fair/eco stuff is just fair- and greenwashing.

If you buy a phone because you want to look fair/eco, buy a Fairphone. If you actually really care for fair/eco, get an used phone and donate some money to the correct NGOs or charities.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 20 hours ago (1 children)

This. Most of the movies from the 80s and 90s are great, because we haven't watched them for a few decades and as kids we just didn't know better and thought any movie we watched was great.

I recently watched Star Wars 4-6 again and these movies were boring as hell. They were just about right to have some background noise while doing the dishes, but it's really not good enough to warrant sitting down and watching it, let alone spending money and going to the movies for it.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 20 hours ago

But there was no switcharoo

[–] [email protected] 2 points 20 hours ago

Wait for it ;) It's gonna get you like anyone else.

Except if you stay childless and then you are the rando with too much time while everyone else you know just disappears into sleep-deprivation-induced zombie mode.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 20 hours ago

Yeah, and sometimes they don't reach different instances at all.

 

Not GTA, not Star Citizen, not any game with actual gameplay, story, or anything like that.

Just a freaking Niantic reskin for freaking Monopoly.

I live in the wrong timeline.

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